classiclitclub | Homer's "The Iliad", Discussion Post #2: Books 4-6

Sculpture of Athena counseling Diomedes shortly before he enters the battle, sculpted by Albert Wolff, 1853

'When Athenaean Pallas on the son

Of Tydeus, Diomede[s], new force conferr'd

And daring courage, that the Argives all

He might surpass, and deathless fame achieve.

Fires on his helmet and his shield around
She kindled, bright and steady as the star

Autumnal, which in Ocean newly bathed

Assumes fresh beauty; with such glorious beams

His head encircling and his shoulders broad,

She urged him forth into the thickest fight.'

Book 5, Lines 1-10 (Cowper translation)

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

He is amazing! And I am amazed at myself for always forgetting what a big ol deal he is--he's a one-man war machine, PLUS stops for a second to discover and respect the sacred role of the guest-friend, PLUSSS he actually wounds actual gods including Ares who nobody in the poem (and me as well) seems to like. And Ares is a whiny dbag. :D

I love the clear and notable difference between how the Greeks view Ares versus the Romans view Mars. Ares in this really does feel almost like a secondary God of War to Athena (who everyone in Greece seems likes a lot more).

Diomedes is like a one-man war machine and frankly it's amazing he survives this whole war. And somehow even has a good go of it later, managing to not die and even goes on to Italy to found some sweet-ass towns.

The most amazing thing about Diomedes (besides his v. good shouting ability) is that he's in the Aeneid as well and even survives that.

The most amazing thing about Diomedes (besides his v. good shouting ability) is that he's in the Aeneid as well and even survives that.

I bet Aphrodite is pissed. Her precious kid Aeneas gets his own epic poem and that nasty guy Diomedes has the gall to be in it, too! After stabbing her! Mortals!

He is indeed amazing. When we last saw him in Book 2, he was leading 80 ships (which is... not bad; they're not all his, it's his ships and ships of Sthenelus (dear son of glorious Capaneus), and of Euryalus (a godlike warrior, son of king Mecisteus, son of Talaus), but he's a leader of the whole gang).

Now we see again that Diomedes and Sthenelus are thick of thieves. Or rather, Sthenelus jumps to the defense of Diomedes' dignity like HOW DARE YOU when Agamemnon bullies him, Sthenelus goes all "Son of Atreus, utter not lies, when thou knowest how to speak truly. We declare ourselves to be better men by far than our fathers: we took the seat of Thebe of the seven gates, when we twain had gathered a lesser host against a stronger wall, putting our trust in the portents of the gods and in the aid of Zeus; whereas they perished through their own blind folly. Wherefore I bid thee put not our fathers in like honour with us." And Sthenelus is like, showing off his prowess and also trying to be cool enough for Diomedes, and to take care of Diomedes... By Book 5 he could as well be ordering a singing telegram and a dozen baloons saying "I WANT TO BE THE PATROCLES TO YOUR ACHILLES, MY SWEET DIOMEDES", like when he goes "PLS TAKE CARE DARLING" here:

[239] So saying they mounted upon the inlaid car and eagerly drave the swift horses against the son of Tydeus. And Sthenelus, the glorious son of Capaneus, saw them and straightway spake to Tydeus' son winged words: "Diomedes, son of Tydeus, dear to my heart, I behold two valiant warriors eager to fight against thee, endued with measureless strength. The one is well skilled with the bow, even Pandarus, and moreover avoweth him to be the son of Lycaon; while Aeneas avoweth himself to be born of peerless Anchises, and his mother is Aphrodite. Nay, come, let us give ground on the car, neither rage thou thus, I pray thee, amid the foremost fighters, lest thou haply lose thy life."

(He does pull his own weight in the fight with Aphrodite.)

One has to wonder if poor Sthenelus sets his heart to be broken, though. He may have sailed with Diomedes high-of-heart and is constantly hovering, but we do know that Diomedes has another BFF...

Odysseus. It's hard to beat Odysseus' swag. And the Cypria shows that they are really good pals. When Palamedes goes on a fishing trip, Odysseus and Diomedes casually tag along, just kings being pals. And then they drown Palamedes! Now, Odysseus was obviously seething about earlier, when:
1) Palamedes realised that Odysseus had not actually gone mad but was faking it to avoid sailing to war with Troy in the first place;
2) Palamedes had the brilliant idea to kidnap Odysseus kid son to rope him into going to war anyway - and it worked.
But Diomedes has no motive to kill Palamedes. He is just Odysseus' accomplice/accessory to murder because he is a good friend. Just kings being pals!

A question for the oracle: does Sthenelus worry that Diomedes likes Odysseus more because they haven't drowned anyone together?

GREEK CHORUS OF BONEY M IN THE BACKGROUND:

DI-DI-DIOMEDE, ACHAENS' GREATEST WAR MACHINE.

Are you really even ancient greek best friends forever if you haven't committed casual murder for a king-friend ~~with benefits~~? It seems to be a running theme.

Regicide: in some circles, the equivalent of a friendship bracelet. Different people, different courtship rituals!

And yes, the impromptu mutual striptease with Glaucus, son of Hippolochus IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BATTLEFIELD. Where they begin by exchanging insults, then establish that their families are sort of acquainted and decide they need to hug it out and exchange clothes and weapons immediately, and make plans to hang out at each other's palaces after the war.

And clearly the charisma of Diomedes is so enormous that Glaucus happily rolls with it even though:
1) Diomedes originally started prodding him first;
2) Diomedes' rags & bling are vastly inferior to Glaucus', to the point that even gods watching think that Glaucus must be quite cuckoo to swap. And yet.

Diomedes. Who is this guy. Folks just love him and want a piece of him.

Diomedes is so great! He is definitely one of my faves, the only one who gets to live!

Homer's "The Iliad", Discussion Post #2: Books 4-6

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